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Nelson Fernandez
Gold Membership
Nuke Active Member
Posts:39
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| 2/08/2007 2:19 PM |
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I have a similar WH4L tale. Crappy performance. Bad tech support.
I once complained about performance and my site was turned off. I called to find out what was going on and I was informaed that my bandwidth usage for the previous month was 300gigs (my site delivers video).
After informing the tech that I was on the "unlimited bandwidth" plan, the tech told me "But sir 300 gigs is too much! You site was making all the other sites slower!" when I asked his definition of "unlimited" he said "maybe 200 or 250 gigs"
I knew then that I had to get out. I have since purchased my own 1U server and am co-locating in a datacenter. |
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Wes Clyburn
Registered Users
Nuke Newbie
Posts:9
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| 4/29/2007 3:43 AM |
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Worst host in the history of the universe. Here are some graphs over a period of a few days. I was constantly dealing with outages, and simply had no choice but to get off their servers as quickly as possible.
- 2005/01/03
- 2004/11/22
- 2004/11/24
- 2004/11/26
C|Net doesn't have a speedometer and never has. But if they did, I find it very hard to believe WH4L would be listed.
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MCTS, MCPD |
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Repeat Solutions
Registered Users
Nuke Newbie
Posts:2
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| 6/24/2007 9:49 AM |
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Hi,
I run an open source hosting and development company, we have develoepd many DNN sites, including our own.
Currently we sell standard MS hosting plans (3 types) but my feeling is that we need to provide some specific DNN plans.
I would appreciate anyones suggestions on this including what you need in the plan and what you are willing to pay for it!
We have had clients move to us from two hosting companies so far who offer dnn hosting but their platforms were just far too slow.
Thanks for your help!
Adrian
www.pairpair.com
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Déclic Vidéo
Gold Membership
Nuke Master
Posts:781
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| 11/30/2007 12:31 PM |
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Robax, and others, I would like to know your opinion after some year/month now...
I am on WH4L, I was very happy, but now, I have awfull problems.
Not linked to speed, I am very happy with speed.
But I have DOWNTIME, one hour every two days... I have sent my 7th request, but the last one...
If we do not find a solution, I will go somewhere else !!! I would like to have time to add content, not to survey my downtime... And to migrate server. They already changed me from server, then application pool.
But I have to say that they are very nice, they do a lot for trying to satisfy customer.
So, I am ready to pay more, but what to choose ?? Any advice ? Any good ending with WH4L ????
DV |
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Non linear video editing software, tips and tricks, tutorials... Déclic Vidéo FX |
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Robert Axford
Gold Membership
Nuke Master
Posts:756
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| 11/30/2007 1:48 PM |
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I've come to the conclusion that letting people suffer is part of WH4L's strategy. They provide 9 out of ten points... and hold back the one thing that can only be solved with an upgrade. The upgrades work and selectively remove all the problems, but it's a pain to have to keep bending over futher for DNN.
WH4L are a problem, but I also blame DNN and ASP.Net, because it is all such an incredible resource hog. I have a bunch of PHP carts and a couple of Access ones running in a pool alongside my DNN effort and I have to point the finger at DNN as the source of 99% of the issues. The rest always run without trouble.. even on the cheap shared account I first had. I think there's a lesson in that.
Because I'm slowly building up a commercial venture (aren't we all) I have not minded making investments in my system. DNN itself has caused me to learn to accept paying for software; something that one seldom needs to do in the PHP world.
For me there were just a handful of decision makers:
1. Because of my total requirements, I wanted all the features that WH4L offered - I looked many times and could not find the same set anywhere.
2. I wanted a clear and progressive upgrade path to a dedicated server, for when I expand.
3. I wanted full support along the way.
For all their awful communications skills (I have enough material for a book), the WH4L staff have never stopped trying to help - I expect that is part of the 'call-centre' style they do things in. In other companies one is often dealing with the person who has a stake in the business and I find they are more likely to push everyting back on you as soon as they've found a reason to... "What OS are you using.. Vista.. Oh then it's that because people have trouble with it." That sort of thing riles me.
Wtih WH4L you have to get past the kid at the door who is pasting in scripted replies. They have more skilled people on call, and although they also commincate like typical developers/IT people, they have more actual knowledge.
So, I'm on the advanced VPS account and did not have remote desktop for a long time, preferring to use the cotrol panel, which is excellent. I found after a while that I simply could not make DNN run well enough via the support system.. the old game 'chinese whisper' comes to mind.. oh the irony. The real killer came when I had low output for about a week and I complained and the monkey said my disk was 60+% fragmented... which was completely irrelevant to the issue, but more importantly he would not offer to defrag it - they get a more hands-off approach as you go up I think.
So I finally got remote desktop thinking I'll have to learn some time. My 4.6.2 site was running flawlessly and I was preparing to go to 4.7 soon. I'm now much happier since having the remote access. The ability to watch the task manager, change pools, start and stop and recycle (using that restart button in DNN Host Settings, or hitting the web.config doesn't produce anything like the result that recycling a pool on the server does).
So.. as my cost went up, my support tickets went down. That's ok. And I do believe that wanting to use DNN seriously in the first place is opening a can of worms that ends up with running one's own server.
I'll never forget sitting around waiting anywhere between a second and ten minutes for every single thign to happen in my DNN portal on the shared account. Once you have your own resources - and can watch them, Then you know you've removed the support staff and other customers from the equation and its much easier to get things done.
And there are other caveats hiding in the wings. I wrote once how monthly data doesn't really matter when you can't actually use it. Dedicateed accounts are capped because you are able to use the resources. The shared accounts are usually not capped, because you haven't got a hope in hell of using the resources.. becuase 100 other people are using them too.
The actual bandwidth out of my AVPS seems to be about 170KBps. The db servers do that much again. This matters for example if you want to stream video off the server. Get more than a few going and you've used it all up.
I could go on and on I guess.
It comes down to your exact plans in the future and then find the host that has both the end point and the path to get there. WH4L has suited me and the only real issue is that I have had to get to the halfway point sooner than I planned. DNN is really the source of that problem however.
My system is any number of static or PHP sites. A single DNN portal system which I plan to grow to many sub portals. A seperate test portal. And easy means of making and managing backups and restores, because I'm basically building a single large application, and that means my risk management processes have to be good.
oh.. and my downtime the years ago on the shared account was only slight. That grew to more than 10% at the end. now my downtime has been consistent at about 0.4%. That's mainly upgrades or when I do a restore after a module failure.
I don't particularly recommend WH4L, but it is the best one for me and my needs and plans.
I should say also that I'm not convinced that one of the lower VPS accounts would work. I went straight for the top account because it is the only one that is a real VPS with its own operating system. I can reboot it, install anything I want etc.
Hope that helps
Rob |
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Robert Axford
Gold Membership
Nuke Master
Posts:756
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| 11/30/2007 1:52 PM |
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| fark! did I just write all that |
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Déclic Vidéo
Gold Membership
Nuke Master
Posts:781
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John Travolta
Gold Membership
Nuke Addict
Posts:70
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| 12/01/2007 4:50 AM |
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Hi DV,
haveing nothing against WH4L (have had my dnn sites in the "same league host" => WSS), I strongly recommend to look at PowerDNN !. They have higher prices but they provide supreme performance, support and knowledge.
John T. |
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Déclic Vidéo
Gold Membership
Nuke Master
Posts:781
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Robert Axford
Gold Membership
Nuke Master
Posts:756
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| 12/01/2007 5:20 AM |
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Hi DV, yep on the Advanced VPS. Had that for a year and added remote desktop about 2-3 weeks ago. You get the exact same support as before.. though considering the money it costs, I feel comfortable pressuring them a lot more now. The good bit is you still get service, whereas most VPS or dedicated accounts elsewhere offer it as an addon instead.
You also still get half of the hosting panel. You lose the third tab from the left I think, and a lot of the security tab as well, because you have to do it all on the remote. I was worried about it at first but it really has turned out to be pretty easy. All the database and email and DNS management is still there. Oh, and you lose the webstats tab and the Frontpage manager. You do that instead via the proper Frontpage server admin tool.
I do recommend PowerDNN, and their basic accounts have excellent performance, but it is only any use for single portals. The guy even has a whole page of highly dubious information, basically trying to discourage people from running sub portals. And you certainly don't get anything like the control and freedom and features you get with WH4L. The email, bandwidth, db, stats and many other things are extremely limited there, and there is of course nothing on offer other than DNN with MSSQL 2005... I mean nothing... but for their particular system that is a plus.
WSS came highly recommended, but was the only host that didnt' respond to my repeat requests for information sent via three channels, so they were off the table because of that. Quite a few other hosts were cagey, or haughty when I requested details, and that said a lot. Quite frankly, the best host as far as service and support goes that I ever had was my old one, Appliedi.net. They're real pros and I was with them for about 5-6 years, but they just didn't have the features, the control, nor the upgrade path I wanted for DNN, so I eventually migrated all of that over to WH4L and used the savings on the VPS upgrade. I note that they've changed their offer quite a bit since as well.
As already mentioned.. it comes down to exactly what your plans are. I wouldn't recommend WH4L unless you were working along similar lines to myself...but if you are, then check out WSS as well and see how they stack up.
Rob |
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Robert Axford
Gold Membership
Nuke Master
Posts:756
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| 12/02/2007 5:30 PM |
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oh.. and I have one more point to make about getting any kind of dedicated/VPS service. This is something that is also not obvious, but can cause trouble.
When you're on a shared server with "unlimited" resources, it works on a first-come first-served basis. The resources on offer are the entire resources of the server... that could be 16Gb of ram, multiple CPUs, and bandwidth that is not restricted - which is what hosts like to call "unlimited", but is still always limited by the capabilities of the system and network.
Now.. once you buy a VPS account, you're looking at fixed resources. In my case it was 512Mb ram, one quarter of the dual core CPU and about 170KBps throughput. The point with these dedicated resources is that you get all of them all of the time.
The fixed ram limit can have a serious affect on a DNN portal.you get the full 512mb all day and night, but you dont' get any more. On the shared server you might have had 200 one moment and 2Gb an hour later. Your DNN application tends to just run slower as resources run out on a shared, whilst on a dedicated, it wil stop altogether. I did not have memory exceptions until I got the VPS.
However, on a VPS/dedicated you can organise your app pools as you please and can also set recycling triggers and generally manage and tweak the site to run more efficiently.
Rob |
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Déclic Vidéo
Gold Membership
Nuke Master
Posts:781
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Robert Axford
Gold Membership
Nuke Master
Posts:756
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| 12/06/2007 3:40 PM |
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heh that's interesting.. exactly my experience with them too. Great way to lose customers.
Rob |
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Scott McCulloch
Administrators
Nuke Master
Posts:12548
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| 12/06/2007 5:27 PM |
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| Guys, how are you contacting WSS? |
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Scott McCulloch
Site Administrator |
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Robert Axford
Gold Membership
Nuke Master
Posts:756
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| 12/06/2007 6:06 PM |
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I wrote to sales@websecurestores.com a couple of times and you also passed my details on to the guy to respond, but I never heard any further and in the end the feature list was insufficient anyway... They lacked the php/mysql that I needed and the upgrade path didn't include a VPS/remote access intermediate stage - which I was keen on in order to learn about server management before jumping on a dedicated.
Even so, I'm sure they offer good service to clients because people often say so.
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Déclic Vidéo
Gold Membership
Nuke Master
Posts:781
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Déclic Vidéo
Gold Membership
Nuke Master
Posts:781
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| 12/12/2007 5:49 AM |
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Well, just to keep you informed that things are worst and worst... I now have ~1hour to 1hour 30 minutes of downtime EVERY DAY...
I have two tickets opened, I have escalated the ticket to manager, did not have any answer for 4 days now...
I sent an email to CEO last sunday, still no news...
I am very sad, I thought it was a society which was serious enough, but it becomes crazy and crazy, I do not know what to do...
Why not VPS, but I am afraid that it will stay the same, with 200 websites on it... :-(
DV
PS: Robax, can you look your personnal message, I have sent one to you for additionnal private info... |
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Non linear video editing software, tips and tricks, tutorials... Déclic Vidéo FX |
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Scott McCulloch
Administrators
Nuke Master
Posts:12548
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| 12/12/2007 7:04 AM |
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| I contacted websecurestores for you DV, they asked if you received a ticket number when you emailed them? If you can provide this number, I can chase it up for you. |
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Scott McCulloch
Site Administrator |
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Déclic Vidéo
Gold Membership
Nuke Master
Posts:781
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| 12/12/2007 12:00 PM |
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Hello Scott,
Thanks so much.
I think that I received a ticket, yes. Unfortunately, I have deleted all my mails very recently, because my hosting provider give me satisfaction, and I thought: I will never need these emails anymore....
But for information, the information that websecurestores is not accepting people anymore is also posted on other forums, as well in my PDF sheet (look at my website/DNN.aspx --> you will find the comparison here. I would not have published this without having official communication). And I have been in contact multiple time with them, always the same answer... It's a pity....
DV |
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Non linear video editing software, tips and tricks, tutorials... Déclic Vidéo FX |
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Robert Axford
Gold Membership
Nuke Master
Posts:756
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| 12/12/2007 2:52 PM |
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Posted By Declic Video on 12/12/2007 5:49 AM
Well, just to keep you informed that things are worst and worst... I now have ~1hour to 1hour 30 minutes of downtime EVERY DAY...
I have two tickets opened, I have escalated the ticket to manager, did not have any answer for 4 days now...
I sent an email to CEO last sunday, still no news...
I am very sad, I thought it was a society which was serious enough, but it becomes crazy and crazy, I do not know what to do...
Why not VPS, but I am afraid that it will stay the same, with 200 websites on it... :-(
DV
PS: Robax, can you look your personnal message, I have sent one to you for additionnal private info...
The CEO there is Erwin. I also ended up escalating tickets to him, but when he does eventually reply you'll find out that he sets the standard for the frontline support staff.
I totally understand the spot you're in.. I was exactly there when I wrote up these posts way back. It was unbelievably frustrating and I simply did not want to give them my future business. I also had the same sort of downtime.. I often wonder if they did it on purpose to make people upgrade... but then again, DNN really does need the resources.
The VPS has dedicated resources, so you get them all no matter how many others are on there. If there are 200 other sites, they're all stuck in the other person's resources, not yours. Note that there are 3 VPS accounts and only the top one is fully VPS with it's own separate operating system.
I've sent a reply back to the DV's message, basically asking about his future plans so that I can be more specific about my experiences and whether I think it would work.
Rob |
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