Scott McCulloch Administrators
 Ventrian Master Posts:17204


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| 1/23/2006 12:06 AM |
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| I agree that News Articles would migrate into a good calendar, with the exception of maybe simplicity. It seems the majority of other calendars out there suffer from problems with recurring events? Has anyone found one that handles recurring events ok? |
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Scott McCulloch Site Administrator |
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Scott McCulloch Administrators
 Ventrian Master Posts:17204


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| 1/23/2006 12:08 AM |
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| Have you guys looked at WebCalendar? |
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Scott McCulloch Site Administrator |
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benoit sarton Gold Membership
 Ventrian Wiz Posts:146


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| 1/23/2006 1:11 AM |
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Posted By smcculloch on 1/23/2006 12:06 AM I agree that News Articles would migrate into a good calendar, with the exception of maybe simplicity. It seems the majority of other calendars out there suffer from problems with recurring events? Has anyone found one that handles recurring events ok?
From practical experience, recurring events should not be implemented any differently than normal events. I would just permit some easy way to insert multiple events at create time, for exemple ' every week ; next 3' would create 4 events with only a difference in the eventdate. Once you've inserted the multiple recurring events, each of them should be an independant event
It should NOT be 1 event with some specific property of beeing 'recurrent'
Some will argue : 'hey, but for a meeting everyday at 9am for one year, will you create 365 records ?". Answer is yes. This kind of use is rare - (never happen in real cases I've seen) - there are other tools for that
In real life, there are not so many recurring events, but you need to change them individualy. For exemple, there will be 5 dance shows on march 1st, 8, 15, 22, 29 at 21pm, except on 22nd at 8:30pm, and on the 21th there is a party after the show, etc you see the picture : you need to update events one by one once they 've been inserted. 'recurring' events are usually not exactly recurring, and not exactly the same.
Of course you could add a 'RelatedEvents' key in the events table, that would permit group delete or update
Note that if my suggestion to use NewsArticle as a grounding for a calendar were adopted, NewsArticles would also benefit from the option to insert multiple 'articles' with same content. I know one case where newsarticles is used for data sheets with very similar contents with minor changes, and it would be cool to say 'I want to insert 10 identical datasheets and then update them 1 by 1.
Benoit Sarton
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Benoit Sarton http://www.bsi.fr www.dotnetnuke.fr
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Tim Sherrill Gold Membership
 Ventrian Newbie Posts:7

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| 1/23/2006 4:33 AM |
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I agree completely (with regards to recurring events). I've had to change a recurring event to a series of one-time events because we needed to cancel one of the meetings because school was out during that week or whatever.
Tim |
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Scott McCulloch Administrators
 Ventrian Master Posts:17204


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| 1/23/2006 5:03 AM |
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So if I create a recurring event each wednesday for a team meeting (with no end date), how would you represent this in the database? Or do you make them always put in a end date. What about moving a recurring event, would you have to change each instance? |
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Scott McCulloch Site Administrator |
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BarryS Registered Users
 Ventrian Wiz Posts:155


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| 1/23/2006 5:11 AM |
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I have a site for a national organisation that has over 30 regions. Each region holds its own local meetings, most of which recur monthly. The recurrences are usually of the form every 1st Wednesday, or last Friday, or every 3rd Tuesday.
If going the route suggested by Benoit and having multiple inserts at create time, there should also be the option of bulk deleting these events if a change is made. Much along the Outlook approach where you are asked 'Delete this one event, or all events in the series'. An enhancement would be to be able to delete all events in the series going forward. Using the Alan Vance/Intellisoft way, just changing the 'repeat until' date should have this effect, freeing you up to create another series of recurrences with the changed options.
The Alan Vance/Intellisoft approach to this is good for me because it allows the regions to have their own calendars, and a master calendar that will pick up events from the regional calendars.
I would also like to see any calendar module have the option of a compact display, ie like a blog calendar with the days rendered in a different colour if there's an event that day. That would be much easier to show on a home page, the events can be shown in tooltips if you choose to hover over the date. The full monthly calendar can then be shown on a page dedicated to it.
I guess we all have our different requirements, it will be interesting to see how they are distilled into the final product 
Barry |
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Phil Speth Gold Membership
 Ventrian Wiz Posts:127

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| 1/23/2006 6:04 AM |
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I have been working on a calendar and the first thing I did was write all of the stored procedures for adding and working with Recurring events. Complex, to write but I believe straightforward to read.
I would be happy to if it would kickstart things.
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Phil Speth Gold Membership
 Ventrian Wiz Posts:127

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| 1/23/2006 6:06 AM |
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Meant to say I would be happy to share. |
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Jack Hoelz Gold Membership
 Ventrian Master Posts:861


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| 1/23/2006 6:14 AM |
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Sorry Scott, I realized I never answered your question.
After playing with them all and actually having the Houston groups AVCalendar on some production sites I'm giving the nod to Davids Intellisoft Calendar.
But hey, thats today and tomorrow is another day. David seems to have the time now but that can change in a heart beat.
Scott, I see Simple Calendar is on your roadmap for 2006. As you know this issue has been at critical mass for me for a long time and I need something that works. From the interest I have seen, the community is also looking for a working, actively developed calendar module. Forgive me for trying to pin you down but can you give us a time frame? I think if the community gets behind a single calendar module we all would benifit. The core module is not the answer as it will never be enhanced and or patched at the pace required for commercial environment. As much as I like the Intellisoft Calendar I'm always a bit leary of the "free" stuff as there is no real acountablility (if source is available thats not as big a deal).
I'm happy to support any effort to get a good calendar module and as a community I think we should pick 1 and get it going. The fragmented approach we have right now is just not working. |
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Get The Net!!
Jack Hoelz |
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Bill Cunnien Registered Users
 Ventrian Wiz Posts:134


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| 1/23/2006 6:41 AM |
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Posted By jhoelz on 1/23/2006 6:14 AM
I'm happy to support any effort to get a good calendar module and as a community I think we should pick 1 and get it going. The fragmented approach we have right now is just not working.
Ditto!
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Linguinut
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BarryS Registered Users
 Ventrian Wiz Posts:155


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| 1/23/2006 6:42 AM |
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Jack,
I too have been waiting for a decent calendar, and also like you, David Cohanoff's is looking pretty good and is probably the one that will tempt me.
Scott is looking at his calendar as being part of the Simple series, and I think that I am looking for the calendar to be more than that, I'm going to want to use it for enrollment too. |
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Phil Speth Gold Membership
 Ventrian Wiz Posts:127

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| 1/23/2006 10:02 AM |
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Like I said I have written some pretty powerful stored procedures to handle recurring events.
They create a single event, and then have a separate table for event times.
If a single instance of an event is changed, then a new event is created.
If you want to delete or change all instances of an event that is doable as well.
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benoit sarton Gold Membership
 Ventrian Wiz Posts:146


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| 1/23/2006 1:52 PM |
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Interesting thread
- calendar aggregation is really a must, the killer app would be the possibility to aggregate calendars from differents dnn portals
- the problem with the concept of the 'Simple series' is that a calendar is a commitment for a long future. I mean if you set a Simple gallery and some day you client want to change, no problem (note that my client is very satisfied with simple gallery and wont change). If you place a shout module and have to change that to a chat in the future, no problem. But a calendar i would not want to start with something that would not have power in stock in case the clients would become more demanding, and clients DO become more demanding. So ok for a concept of 'Simple calendar' if scalable to a more powerfull app in the future.
- http://www.k5n.us/ looks cool, i'll probably install that on a linux box and have a look
Benoit
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Benoit Sarton http://www.bsi.fr www.dotnetnuke.fr
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Scott McCulloch Administrators
 Ventrian Master Posts:17204


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| 1/25/2006 3:59 AM |
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Posted By pspeth on 1/23/2006 6:04 AM
I have been working on a calendar and the first thing I did was write all of the stored procedures for adding and working with Recurring events. Complex, to write but I believe straightforward to read.
I would be happy to if it would kickstart things.
Can I take a look at your schema and procs ? (smcculloch@iinet.net.au) |
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Scott McCulloch Site Administrator |
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Scott McCulloch Administrators
 Ventrian Master Posts:17204


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| 1/25/2006 4:06 AM |
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Posted By jhoelz on 1/23/2006 6:14 AM
Sorry Scott, I realized I never answered your question.
After playing with them all and actually having the Houston groups AVCalendar on some production sites I'm giving the nod to Davids Intellisoft Calendar.
But hey, thats today and tomorrow is another day. David seems to have the time now but that can change in a heart beat.
Scott, I see Simple Calendar is on your roadmap for 2006. As you know this issue has been at critical mass for me for a long time and I need something that works. From the interest I have seen, the community is also looking for a working, actively developed calendar module. Forgive me for trying to pin you down but can you give us a time frame? I think if the community gets behind a single calendar module we all would benifit. The core module is not the answer as it will never be enhanced and or patched at the pace required for commercial environment. As much as I like the Intellisoft Calendar I'm always a bit leary of the "free" stuff as there is no real acountablility (if source is available thats not as big a deal).
I'm happy to support any effort to get a good calendar module and as a community I think we should pick 1 and get it going. The fragmented approach we have right now is just not working.
Today was my last contracting day, which means in means after the honeymoon (finishing Feb 5th), I am back to full time development. Two modules I really want to kick a goal with in the early months are Simple Calendar & Estate Agent. I am forming a group of testers for estate agent to feed requirements and do the testing. I'm sure I could count on you guys for testing Simple Calendar?
To give you a time frame, Feb 6th onwards see's full time development on Simple Calendar and Estate Agent, given 4-6 weeks development (a few releases in there), you should see a stable version mid-march. I know I have said this before, (end of 2005), but I'm finally back to full time which makes a huge difference because it gets my full focus.
I apologise for the last few months, the contract I took on full time took a lot more out of me then I could have guessed, the good news is that I have the funds (as a backup) to fund development for the rest of the year.
On a site note, I took a look at this calendar today, it looked ok (and an interesting concept):-
http://www.myhomepoint.com/
http://www.myhomepoint.com/app/security/login.aspx?fn=doe&mn=john&pwd=pwd (demo) |
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Scott McCulloch Site Administrator |
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Scott McCulloch Administrators
 Ventrian Master Posts:17204


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| 1/25/2006 4:08 AM |
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Posted By zoulou on 1/23/2006 1:52 PM
Interesting thread
- calendar aggregation is really a must, the killer app would be the possibility to aggregate calendars from differents dnn portals
- the problem with the concept of the 'Simple series' is that a calendar is a commitment for a long future. I mean if you set a Simple gallery and some day you client want to change, no problem (note that my client is very satisfied with simple gallery and wont change). If you place a shout module and have to change that to a chat in the future, no problem. But a calendar i would not want to start with something that would not have power in stock in case the clients would become more demanding, and clients DO become more demanding. So ok for a concept of 'Simple calendar' if scalable to a more powerfull app in the future.
- http://www.k5n.us/ looks cool, i'll probably install that on a linux box and have a look
Benoit
There might be a slight confusion on what I want "Simple" to mean, a clean, uncluttered module that is easy (simple) to use. It could be quite powerfull underneath, but the layout of the UI makes it easy for the 80/90% use.
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Scott McCulloch Site Administrator |
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DNN Professor Gold Membership
 Ventrian Master Posts:764


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| 1/25/2006 5:50 AM |
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Today was my last contracting day, which means in means after the honeymoon (finishing Feb 5th), I am back to full time development. Two modules I really want to kick a goal with in the early months are Simple Calendar & Estate Agent. I am forming a group of testers for estate agent to feed requirements and do the testing. I'm sure I could count on you guys for testing Simple Calendar?
Scott,
I have three real estate agents as neighbors, my wife was an escrow agent for eleven years, I was a builder for 15 years, and I have a large project starting with Century 21 that needs the estate module. If you need a tester let me know...
Buck
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Buck Anderson - DNN Professor
http://DNNprofessor.com
http://twitter.com/DNNprofessor
DotNetNuke Training - XMod Training Coach and XMod MVP
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Jack Hoelz Gold Membership
 Ventrian Master Posts:861


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| 1/25/2006 7:33 AM |
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OK Scott, I'm hanging my hat on you for a calendar!
If you need anything along the way let me know. |
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Get The Net!!
Jack Hoelz |
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DNN Professor Gold Membership
 Ventrian Master Posts:764


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| 1/25/2006 7:52 AM |
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Posted By jhoelz on 1/25/2006 7:33 AM
OK Scott, I'm hanging my hat on you for a calendar!
If you need anything along the way let me know.
That goes for me to...
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Buck Anderson - DNN Professor
http://DNNprofessor.com
http://twitter.com/DNNprofessor
DotNetNuke Training - XMod Training Coach and XMod MVP
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benoit sarton Gold Membership
 Ventrian Wiz Posts:146


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| 1/25/2006 10:50 AM |
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I never imagined you could do something trivial, Scoot ! I 100% adhere to the concept of simplicity when it comes on top of a well designed software
I have installed a k5n.us webcalendar for testing purposes. If you need an admin access to play with it, just let me know. I'll tell you my experience.
First look, like so many calendars, this webcalendar is 'translated' (into french), but not localized. I see so many am and pm and that strange way to display dates as MM/DD/YYYY !!! Please, think localization from the first line of code !
Second, somehow I realize there is a difference between 'personal calendars', based on what 'persons' do in an organization, and 'webportal calendars', with public events (id, what's going on in my city on friday night, etc)
I'm trying to figure out if a single product can meet both needs elegantly. I think it's a challenge but when I realize how versatile NewsArticle is ... it should be possible
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Benoit Sarton http://www.bsi.fr www.dotnetnuke.fr
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