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Steve J.
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| 6/30/2008 7:28 AM |
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Is there a Next/Previous article token? I'm trying to find a way for users to not have to go to Current Articles to view the next/previous published article. Having to go back to Current Articles is cumbersome since you then have to hunt for where you left off.
Thanks,
Steve |
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Scott McCulloch
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Posts:12441
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| 6/30/2008 8:07 AM |
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This is the same issue with property agent, how to determine where they came from? When I view a property/article when viewing a category is different from when viewing a property/article from current articles.
So the problem is, how to determine where to move next/previous? |
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Scott McCulloch
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Steve J.
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| 6/30/2008 8:17 AM |
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Could News Articles be made module aware, so it knows whether it was sent from a category listing or from a latest listing? |
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Robert Axford
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| 6/30/2008 5:22 PM |
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I often think about this problem.
Given that the visitor tends to select an article from a page where articles were already listed in a specific order, e.g title, date, or even a search result, then could that state not somehow be stored and used as the basis for that visitors' prev/next links?
Or to put it another way... If the homepage or the search page (or any other page that lists entries in a particular order), knows how to list them (and obviously it does), then is that order not save-able data that can be used for prev/next links.
So, say the sort order for the Latest Articles module on the homepage were by published-date. If the visitor clicks the first article and it leads through to the main module for viewing the article, the session would need to store the fact that the sort order was by publish date and either, that the first item was clicked, or the date of the item clicked.
Then when the person clicks Next, the module would work out by itself what the next article in line would have been given that sort order and that starting item.
And if the sort order was by title, then wouldn't the module be able to figure out which was next by looking at the title?
Of course it would also need to know the categories that were being filtered, but perhaps that is also something that could either be shifted along with the session.
Or perhaps when the visitor clicks any article anywhere, the session stores the location of that module, and references the display settings for that module when determining which item is previous or next in line?
Obviously I'm no developer so can't say what works.
Rob |
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Scott McCulloch
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| 7/01/2008 8:46 AM |
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There are a few ways to store the information about the current search you are in, e.g. using the URL via parameters or session based information.
Your item about setting session state doesn't actually work because it is just a link on the screen, it would need to pass the necessary information in the hyperlink accross to the view article page to allow it to be set.
Considering the number of options in latest articles, this is very difficult. We could store the search criteria in the database and refer to it by SearchID, but I don't think it offers much value if the user doesn't know on the screen what criteria and result set they are viewing. You also have to apply this to not only latest articles, archives and any other permutation that may come up.
I always though this functionality should only be available from a search screen, so you perform your search, view an article and have the option to refine the search or proceed to the next article in the result set. Linking from anywhere else should not have next/previous functionality. |
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Scott McCulloch
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Scott McCulloch
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| 7/01/2008 8:47 AM |
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| Again, if there is any 3rd party sites, e.g. yahoo that do this, I would be interested to take a look, most work off a central search screen though. |
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Scott McCulloch
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Steve J.
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| 7/01/2008 10:41 AM |
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Passing a query string might be the best option. Then it would display the next/previous article from the settings on the module that sent it. The problem I'm having is a combination of this and the other post I have about paging the current articles display. There would simply be no way to get to some articles if they were over the amount allowed to display on the main page. If the main module only displayed 15 at a time, and there were 60 articles per month 30 of category A and 30 of category B, going by category or current articles best case you would still lose the ability to get to 30 articles unless you "knew" to search for something. (I hope that makes sense). The only option right now is no to limit the main articles display, but then you have a ton of articles listed...
Thanks for listening!
Steve |
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Scott McCulloch
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| 7/02/2008 6:49 AM |
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On your other thread, I posted about using search/categories/archives to get to older articles. This is how most blogs work I think? I dont' see how you lose the ability to see 30 articles when displaying by category, month, etc.
The other option is to page the front screen, but that could be quite long on some sites. |
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Scott McCulloch
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Steve J.
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| 7/02/2008 6:59 AM |
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I thought that it would limit the display to what the main module had set (i.e. - 15 articles) - sorry, assumed wrong! It would still be great to have the option to page the results as well as let current articles page back in time - it would show the amount you designate for current, and allow you to page through to the older articles.
Thanks,
Steve |
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Robert Axford
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| 7/02/2008 4:10 PM |
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Posted By Scott McCulloch on 7/02/2008 6:49 AM
The other option is to page the front screen, but that could be quite long on some sites.
Sorry for jumping in here again.
I see and use that a lot on other sites.. paging at the bottom of the list of articles. With some blogs it's a long row of page numbers 1,2,3,4... but in some cases, for a tidy display, the paging system limits the displayed numbers to about 10 pages back from the current page. I'm not sure if the DNN pager can do it like that though.
Doing that at least allows one to flip through pages of articles in the sequence determined by the first page. that would definitely be desirable.
But is it then not possible to move directly from one article to the next in the same sequence? I'm confused why the articles can be listed in a particular sequence, but that the same sequence can't be used to jump directly from one article to the next. e.g jump to the next article by date or title. Even if it had to do some sort of calculation to find that article from scratch with each click, it would be ok.
E.g... if the starting list is sorted by title, would the Prev/Next button be able to know that, and then search for the next article by title and display it to the user. Again, please excuse my ignorance of the details. |
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Robert Axford
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| 7/02/2008 4:23 PM |
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I guess, now that I read back, that for me this mainly comes up in two situations. When wanting to browse back in time from the main page.. i.e. usually this is by date. And when browsing entries by title, alphabetically.
Even if none of this is possible, could there be a 'Return to List' token that would lead the user directly back to the list they were on when they clicked to view a particular article.
The trouble with searching for content is that one has to repeatedly take guesses/shots at content rather than get into the general area and then drill down by browsing. This same issue applies in Property Agent as well.
Examples of content listed in a searchable and then browse-able manner is shopping carts, auction or classifieds sites, or any sort of archive or catalogue for that matter. It's the ability to drill down into the content by browsing that is so useful. With NA there's a sort of dead end each time one clicks through to an article...there's no ability to move sideways. (I'm just repeating myself of course, but it helps me think)
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Scott McCulloch
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Posts:12441
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| 7/02/2008 5:13 PM |
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Regardless of where you navigate from e.g. RSS, current articles, latest articles, they all arrive at the same "end point" which is the article URL:
http://www.ventrian.com/Resources/Articles/tabid/213/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/261/Configuring-Users-Online-for-DotNetNuke.aspx
To determine where this request came from, you would need to pass either the URL that it came from or the filter settings from where it came from (e.g. category, author etc)
As you could imagine, it isn't really possible with RSS, and given the number of options in latest articles, it's not really feasible to pass the filter settings as well.
The only real option for next/previous is that when an article is viewed, it looks at the settings for current articles (e.g. sort by, category, author filter) and allow you to navigate in that result set only. It can be slightly confusing if they came from elsewhere (e.g. latest articles) that was filtered on author, yet the main module is not. The next/previous would not show the next article for that author.
For a point in example, if I give you a link to any ebay item, can you navigate next/previous on the ebay item? You can navigate next/previous when doing a search on the listing page, but not on the ebay item itself. I think this is similar to viewing an article? |
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Scott McCulloch
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Scott McCulloch
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Posts:12441
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| 7/02/2008 5:15 PM |
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"The trouble with searching for content is that one has to repeatedly take guesses/shots at content rather than get into the general area and then drill down by browsing"
You would drill down by category, author, etc. from the archives module? I'm not sure how you are taking guesses? |
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Scott McCulloch
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Robert Axford
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Posts:748
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| 7/02/2008 6:14 PM |
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There is an important distinction between searching and browsing, in that searchers have to know what they are looking for, whilst browsers do not. If one has to use a search function to browse, then one is taking guesses. The only alternative is to use the Archives module, but in all variations, it provides just one level of drilling or browsing. The result can be hundreds of paged entries with no further refinement possible.
In the case of a site like ebay, the browsing of hundreds of thousands of entries is enhanced with endless sub-levels of categories and other variants. The sidebar makes it dead easy to drill down one branch, then step sideways to another. It is always aware of the current list. The listed entries are also displayed in a user-selectable and reversible sequence that suits the purpose; date, price, buy-now, etc. All lists are of course paged as well.
The main News Articles module only provides a single level of refinement - just one drill - the one provided right up front and set by the admin. The different types of browsing offered by the Archives module are also not cumulative, but are one-off. After that one click, one has nowhere to go but back to the start again.
There are two points coming up here. One is the possibility of prev/next buttons, which I appreciate may not be possible (I was sort of hoping this might eventually work as a result of an article manager).
The other point would be to improve the browsing by providing more levels and abilities to drill down. Maybe a module that would let one select a category or author or month, same as the archives module does, but then it would display the categories, authors etc present in the articles listed, allowing one to further refine the results by topic, date or whatever, without going all the way back up.
This is very much the same thing I missed in Property Agent - a means of click-browsing and drilling down through the various columns of data. This is distinct from running a fresh search from scratch each time. It's about getting into locations, features, etc related to the current page.
I'm getting off the topic of Steve's thread a little because the prev/next seems not to be on the cards. So the alternative suggestion is that being able to drill down or refine more than one level of anything would help greatly... just like on ebay.
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Scott McCulloch
Administrators
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Posts:12441
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| 7/02/2008 7:10 PM |
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I think what you are asking for is the ability to further refine searches, as that's what drilling down is.
Hierarchical categories could achieve this, however you are filtering on one type of categorisation only, having the ability to click on an author in an article and it show the authors belonging to that author is another method of filtering, but it exclusive of the first filter. A companion module that does interact with the main articles module could achieve this.
Ebay either gets you to search first or browse by type (category/property type), when you are shown results, you can drill in further. I would argue that you cou can already do this in property agent (hierarchical types).
The original point was having a next/previous on the view article page, which isn't really possible considering the variants of how to arrive at an article. The next option is to allow click through, this is only achievable by providing additional information on the search/browse, e.g. at the top display something like browse resuts by author, category, etc.
I don't see how the article manager is going to solve this considering it's an administration item only.
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Scott McCulloch
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Steve J.
Gold Membership
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Posts:90
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| 7/03/2008 12:05 PM |
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Could there be a NA display module that is set to Category mode, and the Category listing module would point to it and send the category with it? In the category listing module, the menu could link back to the main news articles module if they decide to browse back to the current articles or search etc.
If that won't work, I think most of the uses for Next/Prev would be someone reading current articles anyway, so just giving them then Next/Prev published article would do the trick.
Thanks,
Steve |
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